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Kids in Restaurants

11/01/07 @ 04:19:40 am, by Kate Hopkins Email 2271 views • Categories: Restaurants

We've talked about this before, earlier this year, but I've seen the discussion pop up recently on two different Seattle Blogs, and it's still a bit of a contentious issue.

Over on West Seattle Blog, a reader sent in a review of a new restaurant in the area (Ama Ama for those of you in the West Seattle are), and they had this to say:

We went to the “shakedown cruise” of Ama Ama last night. Just wondering if you heard from anyone else who went? It was good – not over the top, but good with potential. The “sliders” will probably become a crowd favorite – mini burgers on a yummy bakery nouveau roll – 2 for $8. Some of the best pomme frites included as well. What was missing: a kid menu.

No! No! A thousand times no! Not all restaurants should be kid friendly, and if an owner makes the business decision to NOT put chicken fingers on a menu, then guess what? The poor little darlings will have to do without.

I'm writing this under the influence of lack of sleep, so forgive the manner in which I state this, but please understand - the world is not your kids playground. There are many things that do not always have to be seen from a child's viewpoint. Restaurants are one of these things.

But if a restaurant owner decides to make their place kid-friendly? Well that's their choice. But this doesn't mean that this is an open invitation to treat a restaurant as your own version of Chucky Cheese. As Dan Savage (yes, this Dan Savage) so eloquently wrote yesterday on the Slog (in response to Smith's going family friendly):

Just as responsible pit-bull owners—both of them—are angered by the behavior of irresponsible pit-bull owners, responsible parents—the kind of parents that keep their kids under control at all times in restaurants—are angered by parents that bring out-of-control brats into restaurants. My kid is under control in restaurants because his parents don’t want to ruin your meal anymore than his parents want some other parents’ kids to ruin their meal.

To me, a child running around a restaurant, shrieking at the top of their lungs is as annoying as the woman who won't put out her cigarette. Both of these behaviors interfere with my enjoyment of a meal, and the company I am keeping. Trust me when I say this: Your child is not as precocious as you believe them to be. Bring your kid to the restaurant! Expose them to new and unique experiences! But please, please, please, don't make the owners meet the demands of your children, and don't make other patrons deal with your kids behavior problems.

And as a quick side note: the food world would be a better place if we got rid of the concept of "Kid's Menus". The world is not well served by having hot dogs and chicken nuggets available to children at all times.

UPDATE: Lest people leave this site feeling as if I'm a heartless cur, I'm not blaming the children in any of this. As a commenter alluded to - kids act like kids. It's really up to the parent to decide whether or not a child is appropriate for a specific environment. My guess is that most parents would likely think twice about taking the kids out to a place where Martini's are top selling drink o' choice.

Conversely, an adult has no room to complain about Chuck E. Cheese, McDonalds or any other restaurant that markets to children. If you're a childless adult, these places aren't designed for you. It does play both ways.


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Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: ben [Visitor] Email · http://bengarland.com
The world would be a better place if we just got rid of all children.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 04:38
Comment from: George [Visitor] Email
I waffle between nodding my head and shaking my head with this entry.

My kids go everywhere with me...EVERYWHERE. Except on the ultra-rare "date night", I simply don't go places that are not kid friendly. I do this because I believe that, as a parent, it's my responsibility to place the needs of my children before mine. I also believe that, as a parent, I have a responsibility to make sure that my little darlings don't pester the ever loving heck out of anyone else. My kids are well behaved but, to hedge our bet, we go to establishments that welcome kids. I don't simply mean Charles Fromage...this includes other chains or local restaurants that fit within my culinary and budgetary limits.

As to the kids menu, I agree that they are generally a bit staid and redundant. However, if you don't have kids, you may not know that kids, in general, are not very open to new culinary options. I'm lucky that my children love new things but I am definitely the exception. I love the kid menu simply from a standpoint of economics. Generally, my kids can't eat a full adult portion and I appreciate the fact the an establishment will do a small portion for my small people.

Awesome topic, Kate. I can't wait to read the views of others on this one.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 04:51
Comment from: Rebecca [Visitor] Email · http://www.k2p2.net
/applause

I agree completely! Our first child is due in 7 weeks (holy cow, is that right?! Ack!), and I couldn't agree with you more.

We plan to raise this child the way we were raised. In a restaurant, you sit your butt down and use the same (or better) manners that you use at the dinner table at home. That means inside voices, and you do not get up from the table until you are excused, after everyone has finished eating.

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking along!
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 05:05
Comment from: Patrick [Visitor] Email
Aren't sliders and pomme frites (i.e., burger and fries) already kids items?
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 05:30
Comment from: Journeywoman [Visitor] Email · http://journeywoman.typepad.com
I couldn't agree more.

Not all restaurants should cater to children. It's not necessary. Also I think new things on the "kids" menu is a good idea.

PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 06:07
Comment from: Miss T [Visitor] Email · http://mysteryhouse.typepad.com
Thank you! If I never see another chicken finger on a menu, it will be too soon. How did it come about that this is the only thing children will eat? I somehow managed to survive childhood without ever eating a single chicken finger.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 06:24
Comment from: Jim [Visitor] Email
Kids menu doesn't need be crappy food, but smaller portions of other things on the menu. I'm not going to pay $30 so my 2 year old (who is always quiet in the restaurant, by the way), can have some salmon and eat only 1/5th of the portion.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 06:53
Comment from: TimmyMac [Visitor] Email · http://www.themcintireconspiracy.com
The thing about kids is that they're unpredictable. 9 times out of 10, my little dudes are great. Every now and then, though, they (shockingly) act like kids.

While I'm usually chagrined and embarrassed when it happens, it also comes with the territory, and the last thing I need is some entitled yup-bags cluck-clucking me becasue my kids are interrupting their riveting conversation about celebrity gossip. Trust me, I feel bad enough, okay? I'm also probably tired and flustered and was just trying to get a goddamn sandwich.

Sorry to rant. You're right. Some places are good for kids, and some aren't, and people should respect that, of course. I just don't like the anti-child tone some people get, you know? Be mad at the parents if you must, but the kids are just kids.

And if you haven't tried to raise one of the little maniacs, keep the Monday morning quarterbacking to a minimum. It's harder than it looks.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 07:41
Comment from: tim [Visitor] Email
If you live in the twin cities - Dara makes some recommendations for kids:

http://articles.citypages.com/2007-10-31/restaurants/waiter-more-crayons/
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 07:44
Comment from: Judy [Visitor] Email · http://www.nofearentertaining.blogspot.com
I love good food. My children love good food. They go everywhere with us. When we go out to a restaurant my children are more than likely to order Calamari over something on a children's menu! That said my children are very well behaved in a restaurant. If for some reason they aren't one of us will take them outside and remain there until the situation has passed. I would hate to think that I had ruined someone else's meal. Luckily this very rarely happens and our meals out are relatively uneventful!
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 08:06
Comment from: dixie [Visitor] Email
I am raising 3 kids who are well disciplined, well behaved and well versed in appropriate behavior when dining in a restaurant. When we go to a restaurant they are seen and not heard. Why should my children disrupt someone else's evening out? When I am interrupted by someone's ill-behaved child I resent it - I'm paying for a nice evening out and don't care to listen to someones kid have a melt down or scream across the restaurant, etc. And the parents that ignore that type of behavior? They (and their delightful children) should be escorted out of the restaurant.

Children's menus? Forget them. If your child doesn't want to eat what the restaurant has to offer then don't bring them. The rest of us (those with and without children) will thank you.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 09:18
Comment from: Beverly [Visitor] Email
There is a difference between being "anti-kid" and wanting a clearer distinction between kid spaces and grownup spaces. There should be plenty of spaces where kid behavior is expected and tolerated, and plenty of others where grownup behavior is required. Any adult who feels the need to chide other people's kids at a family-style restaurant should get out of there immediately, and the same goes for anybody--kid or adult--who can't speak softly and eat neatly at a grownup restaurant.

Now all we have to do is agree on which is which.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 09:43
Comment from: Slyde [Visitor] Email · http://www.Slydesblog.com
I agree.. if you are kidless, you have NO business in Chuck. E. Cheese.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 09:58
Comment from: Vanessa [Visitor] Email · http://www.whatgeekseat.com
What is "kid-friendly". I'm sure it's not a place I would dine and I'm also sure my kids would see it as inspid.

My kids can dine appropriately anywhere because that's how we've brought them up.

Smoking is usually illegal in restaurants...unfortunately the child screaming like they've been set on fire because their ketchup has touched their chicken finger isn't.

Teach them well or stay home.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 10:06
Comment from: Sherri [Visitor] Email
I've been to 'grown-up' places where children were allowed to run about, be noisy, throw their food (4-5 yr olds, not 1-2 yrs). While I felt the parents were at fault for not teaching their children proper behavior, I also felt the restaurant management was at fault for not intervening.

Give the parents' a minute to see if they're able to correct their children, or take them to the bathroom or parking lot, but after a minute, inform them that such behavior is not allowed there.

This most likely would not be an issue with the majority of responsible parents posting in this thread -- even well behaved children have their moments, but decent parents intervene quickly, and that's appreciated. It's the parents that do nothing to correct the situation. They're the ones that need management to step in.

But most management seems to be afraid to correct these situations, even though it bothers many other customers.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 10:09
Comment from: Joanne [Visitor] Email · http://www.ForkandBottle.com
My 2 cents on this very hot topic... Restaurant kids menus should be really a portion issue - some great restaurants are happy to make smaller portions of anything on their menu. Others will not stoop to cater to little ones. Still other offer the dreaded chicken finger/pizza/macncheese menus. IMHO It's ok if the price of dining out with kids in a nice restaurant is an entree or appetizer that they are unlikely to finish. Most restaurants are happy to package up the remainder to go.

I think parents need to be responsible bringing kids to restaurants. Meltdowns need to be taken outside. But kids who behave should be able to go anywhere. Children's dining is handled better in Europe where restaurants request that children dine before a certain hour. Makes sense anyways. We take our son (5) everywhere (except 3star Michelins -mainly because of the cost and length of dinner).
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 10:57
Comment from: Pat [Visitor] Email
You really hit the nail on the head with the "kids behavior is a reflection of the parents..." I have a two, four and eight year old, and they are very well behaved because they understand that going to a restaurant is a treat. They prefer a kids menu, but that does not mean that they order from it all the time. If we go some place ethnic, they are forbidden from ordering chicken fingers, for example. They know that part of the reason we go to restaurants is to taste things that we don't normally get at home. We hit a Thai place the other night, and it took some creative thinking, but they all had a good meal.

Aside: If you are at a restaurant and there are kids that are behaving very well, it is always nice to drop a compliment on the parents on the way out.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 11:04
Comment from: tut-tut [Visitor] Email · http://inside-the-shell.blogspot.com
Wow! what a maelstom of comments! Our child's first visit to a restaurant was at 3 weeks in her carrier, in which she lay very quietly. She has been going to restaurants (no famiy friendly ones, either; we've never been inside a Chucky Cheese) her entire life (she is 16 now) and on only two occasions (coincidentally she was 2 at both times) has she misbehaved. We removed ourselves and frankly, that was that. I really think parents need to consider the kid, and what they can cope with.

And a kids menu--puleez. Just not necessary. Look at the appetizers . . .
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 11:42
Comment from: Maureen [Visitor] Email
When we were growing up my brother and I never had anything from the children's menu. Our parents ordered two adult meals and took some of their portion for each of us. A cup of soup is the perfect size for kids. Appetizers are kid size. One dinner salad divided between two children works too. However, we never shared when it came to ice cream:) If we misbehaved my father had a way of giving us "that look" and raising one eyebrow. That pretty much put us in our place.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 12:21
Comment from: Timmy Mac [Visitor] Email · http://www.themcintireconspiracy.com
I can't even fathom forbidding your kid to order from a children's menu.

If I told my 3 year old he couldn't have mac and cheese, then you'd see the behavior y'all are so mad about.

My point is that people shouldn't be so quick to assume bad parenting based on the one episode of crazy kids they see. Even the best behaved kids have a bad day, you know? I'd hate to think I was being judged as a BAD HORRIBLE PARENT WHO RUINS EVERYONE'S FUN because my 3-year old got cranky before the check came.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 13:09
Comment from: Stacey [Visitor] Email
I have to agree. Kids have bad days just like adults. Unlike adults the average 3 year old is still learning how to cope with the frustration of a 25 minute wait for appetizers without shouting & throwing things...oh wait, I know a few adults who haven't mastered that either. Assuming horrible parenting is at fault for the brief snapshot of family interaction you have been given is extremely arrogant.

My kids love mac & cheese, pizza & chicken strips. But i do think the regular menu items should be on teh kids menu, in smaller portions. We occasionally go to a very nice German restuarant that's kid menu is small portions of jager schnitzel and weiner schitzel & chicken with dumplings & I've always wondered why more places didn't do that. I suppose microwave mac & cheese is easy enough to make but its an extra. If you are already making veal saltimbocca, why not offer a half portion?
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 13:29
Comment from: WebTrucker [Visitor] Email
To make it worse.. appearently they are making the kids menu by copying from arguably one of THE worse franchise fast food chains..... White Castles!!! "Sliders" are what everybody calls their tiny burgers that are the mainstay of their menu, due to how they "slide" through your system when you eat them.Ironicly, the chain picked up on the term and has used it in thier advertising for the past few years. I just dont think they get it.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 14:33
Comment from: Jack [Visitor] Email · http://www.ForkandBottle.com
"Conversely, an adult has no room to complain about Chuck E. Cheese, McDonalds or any other restaurant that markets to children. If you're a childless adult, these places aren't designed for you. It does play both ways."

I couldn't disagree more with this. Why must adults lower their standards because it's a kid's restaurant or a fast food restaurant? I remain so disappointed that 98% of the parents in this country think it's just fine to have a party at McDonalds.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 15:28
Comment from: zenzele [Visitor] Email
Why do folks who can't control their kids, complain when someone calls them out, and then accuses those folks of having never raised kids? Well, I've raised a couple, and I've never seen *any* kid in my huge extended family, act out in a restaurant, because they were taught better, from the beginning - period. True, parenting is hard, but it's not impossible, and I really don't want to see someone's kids act a fool because their parents don't know how to take them outside until they've calmed down. As for "chicken fingers," my kids don't get those at home - they're definitely not getting them at a restaurant, and yes, plenty of children actually like healthy, wholesome, creative meals - when their parents actually expose them to such things.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 17:33
Comment from: sarah [Visitor] Email · http://www.cucinabella.blogspot.com
Seriously? Seriously! Normally, I agree with you. This time, I had to roll my eyes. This comes off as something written by someone who just doesn't get it.

Life doesn't end when you have kids. Parents shouldn't be banished to crappy kid theme restaurants or barred from taking their kids anywhere.

Should kids be behaved in restaurants? Absolutely. And for parents like me who believe that kids should be able to fit in anywhere, teaching them to use inside voices in restaurants, eat nicely with utensils and have good manners is important. But kids are people too - people with free will who can have off days where an unfortunately meltdown occurs during dinner. It happens.

As for children's menus ... that's absurd! Why on EARTH should I have to buy my toddler - my normally well behaved toddler - an expensive full sized meal when I know he won't finish it?!? And why should he have to share with his father and I instead of having his own meal? The problem isn't children's menus, it's the crap that too many restaurants put on them. Instead of attacking parents who want their kids to experience life from the get go, get mad at restaurants who think an endless supply of crappy chicken fingers and boring burgers is what kids want. My son? He'd rather have a deliciously decadent pasta or an interesting grilled fish then a grilled cheese. Real food like everyone else is eating - that is what should be on kid's menus!
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 17:59
Comment from: Joe R. [Visitor] Email
No one will suspect you of bad parenting if your child misbehaves. People will suspect of bad parenting if your child misbehaves...and you encourage it through inaction. There's a big, big difference.
PermalinkPermalink 11/01/07 @ 21:03
Comment from: Erika [Visitor] Email · http://tummytreasure.blogspot.com
Well, I would say that I would probably be less inclined to take my children to a restaurant if it doesn't have a children's menu. Not because that's what my children want, but because it is an indication that children are welcome in the first place.

On the occasion where we do find ourselves with our children in a restaurant without a special menu for them, it's always a pleasure to find an accomodating restaurant. One that will bring a child-size portion of something at a child-size price, for example. A sign of a good restaurant should be whether or not they can accomodate the young patrons- not whether or not they have chicken strips on the menu.
PermalinkPermalink 11/02/07 @ 03:23
Comment from: Princess Taj [Visitor] Email · http://www.princesstaj.blogspot.com
Finally!!! Someone has said it!!! I'm so tired of parents allowing their children to scream and run around restaurants - I've actually starting asking the restaurants (restaurants that I'm dropping a big buck for and expecting an enjoyable dinner) for money taken off the bill if a child isn't allowing me to enjoy myself. I've gotten money off the bill every time :) oh, and just stumbled across your blog! LOVE IT!!!
PermalinkPermalink 11/03/07 @ 10:57
Comment from: Kate [Visitor] Email
I agree there are restaurants where you should not bring kids. If I'm on a date at a quiet, romantic, upscale place on the lake with my husband, I don't want a toddler at the next table in high chair throwing french fries on the carpet. I'm sorry, but can't they eat at Denny's until he learns food doesn't belong on the floor? I'm not denying parents a night out; but what happened to babysitters?? I just spent $90 on a nice bistro birthday dinner for a friend and I that was ruined by a gleefully shrieking toddler and grandparents who kept saying "oh, ssshhh..." The kid thought it was a game.

This is my Wheelhouse Issue. Restaurant staffers appear too afraid of bad publicity to say anything, because they'll be boycotted by The Coterie of Indignant Parents shouting "My child has rights! He's just exploring HIS WORLD!" I used to want a half-dozen kids; I'm now in my 40s and happily childfree. But I have come to realize an important distinction: I don't hate kids, I hate parents.

Kids will be kids, and power to them! They're supposed to push the boundaries; parents are supposed to provide limits and guidance. Parents today believe in more of a hands-off attitude. They're afraid to discipline, they feel guilty over how little time they have to spend with their child after work, and in a divorced/blended situation...nobody wants to be "the bad guy."

Maybe this is urban legend, but I heard about a nice restaurant where one family's children were running around and crawling under the table, shrieking, and generally upsetting other diners. When their meal arrived, the manager himself delivered it, packaged to go. He graciously explained that he appreciated their business, but he had other guests as well. Perhaps the family could return sometime when the children were calmer. He included complimentary desserts and handed them the bill.

Now that's the way it should be handled!
PermalinkPermalink 11/06/07 @ 13:42
Comment from: John Galt [Visitor] Email
My proudest moment as a parent? When my then 2-year old handed me back a cookie in the supermarket so he could eat an extra piece of Brie.
PermalinkPermalink 11/07/07 @ 18:27
Comment from: TF [Visitor] Email
Having just had what should have been an intimate, quiet, celebratory dinner for two at a five star restaurant (where we would have paid over $300 for the evening) destroyed by inconsiderate creeps who brought a toddler there and ineffectually jounced it, bounced it, wrestled with it and endlessly hushed it while it roared, screamed, thrashed, kicked, howled and threw things, this article really hits home.

There is a big difference between children who have been properly taught how to behave at the table and an out of control kid who is being allowed to infringe on other people's space. Restaurant management is traditionally far too lax in this area, and like the useless parents of such kids, pretend that they don't see and hear the mayhem going on right under their noses.

For the first time, I voted with my feet. We got up after fifteen minutes of screeching and thrashing from this child and absolutely no effective action taken by its parents, cancelled the rest of our order and refused to pay for what we'd been served. We suggested that the management bill the parents of the roaring brat, and left.

We will never darken their door again, even though the owner of the restaurant came by our shop the other day and apologized for the lack of action taken by his staff. We dropped a couple thousand dollars a year in that place for various special occasions, but no more. How anyone can have the gall to charge five star prices and allow behaviour more appropriate to a monkey cage or mental ward to go on unchecked is beyond me, and they don't need my money.

I will do this at any restaurant that allows a child to run amok with not a word from management. Restaurants are not public property, they are private property, and the owner/management can refuse service to anyone they wish. Why they continually allow anyone of any age to be disruptive and disturb other patrons who are behaving themselves is beyond me.

Just because a child is under age doesn't mean that they can act any way they please and everyone else will just sit there and endure it quietly. If parents aren't doing their jobs, they need to take the kid home and listen to it scream themselves, not inflict it on everyone else.
PermalinkPermalink 02/15/08 @ 20:19
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
Well, I finally found something that proofs my point. I am a Restaurant Manager running a Fine Dining Restaurant in Europe. We have seriously been trying to accomodate Children here and there and except for 1 Dad and his 10 yr. old son, I have rejected people again. Even people back here in europe don't seem to understand how to teach their children behaviour. Plus I am dealing with Russian here also. Most of them think because they have money, they own everything! Not all, don't get me wrong here. But 98% is the fact! Why would a family go to a Fine Dining Restaurant, which is clearly unable to accomodate children! It is a daily fight with few people. Parents show me that you can control your kid and I am again willing to try. If it doesn't work out, I ask you to leave. I will show this add to my boss to underline my point of view. Thank you very much for the above written article... Mike
PermalinkPermalink 06/16/08 @ 15:11

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