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What is Culinary School worth?

01/09/07 @ 06:00:00 am, by Kate Hopkins Email 4671 views • Categories: Restaurants

I came across this story the other day:

SAN FRANCISCO — Cameron Cuisinier's dreams of a catering career led him to culinary school. Now he's unemployed and $43,000 in debt, and he's not alone.

From TV chefs to reality shows where the winners get their own restaurants, it's a hot time to be in the kitchen. Record numbers of would-be chefs are enrolling in culinary schools, some of which charge $20,000 a year or more.

At first glance, the obvious question that popped into my mind was "Are culinary schools worth it?"

But upon reflection, the value of the education that these schools provide is only one part of the education. The worth of anything is determined by the consumer of the product or service. The seller in turn only puts out a price that they know they can get. When taking this thought into account, my question then turned into "Do the students and graduates of these schools know what they are getting into?"

When investing in education, I was told to take into account how much I could expect in return, once I left school. Of course I majored in communications and ended up working in the software/aerospace industry, so what the hell do I know.

Still, I'm wondering what some of these students are thinking. If are aspiring to be head cooks or chefs, the numbers still aren't in their favor. From the article:

The number of food service jobs in America rose from 9.9 million in 2001 to 10.8 million in 2005, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. But a small fraction of those jobs - roughly 115,000 - are for chefs or head cooks, and that number did not change significantly during the five-year span.

That's a one to one hundred ratio, for those of you working that out in your head.

This aspect doesn't even take into account the moderate to low wages, the long hours, and in some instances the lack of benefits. It's a tough gig, no matter how you slice it.

I'm not going to sit here and say "Culinary schools aren't worth the money", because clearly there are some who have benefited from these types of institutions. But I do ask "Are these places selling a lifestyle that is difficult to attain?" The folks I have met who attended various acting and music schools and programs were all told to expect little in the way of financial benefits from their chosen crafts. Do these culinary schools effectively communicate this reality to their respective students?

As a side note, I have found that several of the chefs I have talked with over the past few years have gotten where they are through mentoring and apprenticeship, a practice that Shuna over at Eggbeater highly advocates. Is this a better way to break into the industry, or simply a cheaper alternative?
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So my question to you restaurant folk is this - Would you recommend culinary school to someone? If so, why?


Permalink • 23 comments

Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: Lorrie [Visitor]
As a working chef and a former culinary school student, I often, emphatically tell people "No! Don't go to culinary school!" and even offer to help them find jobs in kitchens, so they can find out if it's something they should even be considering.

I chose to go to one of the big-name schools fresh out of college, after weighing the long term benefits of culinary school versus graduate school in my chosen field, psychology. I'd never worked in a kitchen before, and felt that school was my only way into the industry, though I had no way of really knowing what it was I wanted to get into.

I've been in it for several years, now, and have finally found a great place to work (I actually miss my workplace on my days off, on occasion!)

I have several friends who were somehow inspired by my experiences (I tend to talk about the positives, rather than the negatives), who have chosen to go to culinary schools...and they work a few months in a crappy job, with crappy people...and almost all have gone back to previous job fields - grateful for the experiences, as limited as they were. It's frustrating to me that they're not willing to try different jobs within the industry, after all they've invested in it...but truly, this industry isn't for everyone.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 08:06
Comment from: sam [Visitor] · http://becksposhnosh.blogspot.com/
for a while there last year I was thinking of going to Culinary School, and as you might imagine, Shuna did everything in her power to try and dissuade me. I am not at culinary school. So maybe it worked. But there were other factors at play.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 09:10
Comment from: Lisa [Visitor]
I have worked various restaurant jobs in the past and went to Culinary School in between some of those jobs. Prior to attending culinary school, my opinions varied as to the value of that type of education. Now, after going to school, working jobs that I loved and some that I hated, and then pursuing a different career path altogether, I would not recommend it.

The best education I received came under the tutelage of passionate chefs in the various jobs I worked. I loved Culinary School and would love to go to Culinary School for a living, but the restaurant industry is (for me) long hours, mediocre pay, and being at work during all the times that your loved ones are not.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 09:11
Comment from: V Smoothe [Visitor] · http://www.futureoakland.com
Is culinary school worth it? It depends. I'm glad I went, but I think that most of my classmates went in with expectations that were not realistic.

I went after working in kitchens for a while, and worked as a cook all during school. For me, culinary school was valuable in the sense that it opened up doors that were previously unavailable to me. I started out in small neighborhood burger joint type places, and before school, I felt extremely trapped in a specific niche. I wanted to work in super high-end restaurants, but nowhere even remotely nice would even talk to me.

Once I enrolled in school, I was able to get a much better job at a much better restaurant, simply through virtue of being a culinary student. Once I finished, I was able to get a stage and eventually a job at a now-Michelin starred restuarant. That was my dream, and without my culinary degree, it wasn't an option.

The pay sucks, and people need to realize that going in. Talking to my peers in school, it seemed that they were led by the admissions representatives to believe that they would be making $20/hour right after school. In reality, its more like $10-$12, and it doesn't go up much until you're a chef. If you aren't realistic about that going in, you will likely be very dissapointed.

I enjoyed the business classes we took at culinary school, and learned skills there that I still use today. Culinary school most definitely did not teach me anything about cooking.

So I guess it depends what people are looking to get out of it. I would never recommend someone without industry experience go to culinary school, but for people who are already in the field and want the benefits of having the degree on your resume, it can make sense. Just be ready to work two jobs for a couple years to pay off those student loans.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 10:53
Comment from: Barbara Fisher [Visitor] · http://www.tigersandstrawberries.com/
As a graduate of a culinary school, I would say that whether or not it is valuable depends on what you want to do with it.

I had a great experience in culinary school--I got to meet great chefs, got the experience of helping cater huge events, and I learned an incredible amount of useful stuff. But, I never expected to make a lot of money in food--I had already worked in restaurants, as a caterer and in bars, so I knew what food service was like. Long hours, low pay, generally no benefits.

Many of the younger kids in culinary school had no clue. The most realistic of them already had jobs in the industry, they often, like me, already had degrees in other fields, and they , like me, went out of their ways to gain as much experience as possible while in school. We did this by volunteering for events, doing extra work, helping our chefs cook in their restaurants or do catering jobs and by doing as many internships or externships we could manage. We went above and beyond the curriculum--we essentially did both culinary classroom work -and- got an apprenticeship like Shuna did.

What is the upshot of all of this?

Well, if you want to be a chef, in truth, I would say, go forth and get yourself a job in a kitchen, paid or unpaid. If you really want to work in a posh place, offer to take an unpaid position, just to learn, while you work at your paying job elsewhere. This way you learn whether or not you really want to do this or not.

If you aren't scared off, I would suggest doing as Shuna did and finding a good apprenticeship with a great chef. Culinary school is great and it opened a lot of doors for me--but my aim was never to become a chef! (If after apprenticeship one wants to go to culinary school, one always can, but I think it is a grave mistake for anyone who wants to be a chef to start right out in culinary school with that goal in mind. Culinary school does not a chef make--experience is what makes a chef.)

I went to learn as much as I could in as short a time period as possible so that I could write well about food, and could pass on what I learned as a culinary instructor myself. I never intended to be an executive chef, because I like my family too much and want to see them! (If I were single, or disliked my family--things might be different....)

So, is it worth it?

Yes, it was worth it for me, but no, it is not worth it for everyone.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 13:02
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor] · http://www.saveyourfork.com
I would say it depends on where you want to go within the industry. The programme I took was very much geared towards high end restaurants and hotels - there was no accommodaton for students who wanted to run a small cafe or a catering company, for instance. It was also designed for kids coming right out of high school, and the group of older students I was with who were looking at job retraining or skills upgrades really didn't fit into the overall heirarchal system.

My programme was also focused almost solely on French cuisine, which really wasn't my main area of interest.

However, while I think someone with the drive and interest could definitely go further by apprenticing with a talented chef than by going to school, there was also a lot of historical and technical stuff that you just wouldn't learn with "practical" training. Also, unless the chef you're working under has a particular interest in the less glamorous topics of safety, sanitation and nutrition, a training facility where these are part of the curriculum would give the aspiring chef a leg up over someone working as an apprentice with no formal training.

I think the ideal would be a short training programme that teaches the basics, and gives the student the skills to walk into a kitchen and not chop their hand off. From there, the nuances are better off learned from a mentor with a vested interest in seeing their employee do well, as opposed to an instructor.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 13:10
Comment from: Bee [Visitor] · http://1morebite.blogspot.com/
My brother spent 2 years at a major culinary school, worked as a chef for a few years and now works as a massage therapist (he went to school for that too), but he only works part of the year in massage - the rest of the year he leverages his cooking genius to allow him to travel (he stays with people who all love to have him - he's both a fun guy and a great cook, as impossible as it may seem, he really doesn't ever overstay his welcome).

Has he, financially, gotten back what he put into culinary school. I would guess that there is absolutely no way. Does he regret it? I would also guess no. He truly loves food and loves being able to share that (he's my favorite dining partner!).

So, it really does go back to why you're going to school and what you're expecting to get out of it. It was the right decision for him, but he's not one who looks at the bottom line too carefully.

Bee
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 16:28
Comment from: Shannon [Visitor] · http://www.foodphreak.com
My husband changed careers in his late 20's and decided to go to culinary school. $36,000 later, he has never had a long term job in the industry. Despite the degree, you aren't going to start at much more than $10 an hour with little to no benefits. He had dreams of making much more than that and maybe even owning his own business someday but the long hours, low wages and high pressure environment was more than he was willing to put up with. The school surely didn't teach the realities of what he would be faced with. Anyway, more often than not, restaurants are looking for experience, not an education.

Now, he wishes he would have stuck to his old career (he was a lighting director for concerts and such) where he was making double what he brings home now. I feel for him. His dreams are crushed at a very costly price.

At least I have my own personal chef at home... heh.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 17:30
Comment from: raspil [Visitor] · http://raspil.blogspot.com
i went to culinary school, a little churchmouse school that looked like it was ready to be demolished (or should have been years before). i ACED school. i would never dream of setting foot in a professional kitchen without some background. i would never dream of bothering some busy chef who had better things to do than deal with a noobie who had no idea which end of a whisk to hold.

much like life in general, you only get out of culinary school what you put in. if you put in nothing, you will get nothing. that is why they aren't getting jobs. don't blame the schools, blame lazy-ass students who think they will be chefs and think they ought to earn $50,000 a year right out of school. if someone went to school and thought that was all it took, a piece of paper saying they passed their classes, then they were wrong. no one in my admissions office told me that would happen so i didn't expect it. and if someone's dreams are squashed because it didn't turn out they way they wanted, then i doubt they really wanted to be a chef to begin with. this is not something that happens overnight. if you want to be a chef, you need to realize you're going to be a grunt for a long time before you can be something more. if you can't handle that, then don't do it.

you should not enter this field if all you're thinking about is big money. you're supposed to be in it for the food. end of story.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/07 @ 18:22
Comment from: Simeon [Visitor]
I attended the CIA in Hyde Park many years ago and came away from it with great skills and knowledge.
Prior to my attending the school I was cooking for a few years in my hometown which is very moderate in size.The caliber of restaurants were not so great
but on my return I was able to help change things for the better.
The best option for a culinary school graduate is to find work in a moderate size city where the food in restaurants is below par.
Always cater out of your own kitchen to increase your profile and income,you didn't fo to culinary school to flip burgers.
Do something with your knowledge as the purpose of the school is entrepreneurship



PermalinkPermalink 01/10/07 @ 01:23
Comment from: Caroline M [Visitor]
my husband went to culinary school at a later age (32), having worked in restaurants his whole life and fully knowing what he was getting into. the chef instructors at his school were quick to tell new students what to expect from the culinary world. the husband said that most younger students had no idea what they were getting into and were really surprised that school was hard, tedious (lots of endless chopping of vegetables and “ICK! we have to debone a chicken? Gross!” and was not full of "BAM!" . the expectations some students had were not logical, e.g. most new students totally expected to own their own restaurants right out of school or get their own TV show. the chef instructors were quick to bring them down to earth. the husband said that a lot of the students refused to work while in school, not even part time doing prep work at a restaurant, which is something that is recommended. What’s the point of going to culinary school and totally hating life afterwards?

That said, the husband has some opinions about culinary school in general. Like any school, you get out of it only what you put into it. some of the better chefs he has worked with did not go to culinary school, BUT they had talent and drive and a will to learn from everyone they worked for. The husband’s school was particularly expensive (having supported him while he was in school, I should know). some community colleges are now offering up to date culinary programs that are just as good as more expensive educations at a fraction of the price. If you don’t have a bloated ego and are not into prestige, those programs are good.
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/07 @ 04:43
Comment from: Jim [Visitor]
It's a joke, right. Cameron Cuisinier..."Cuisinier?" Ha ha. I like it.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that Mr. Cuisinier (if that is his real name) is unemployed unless he is thoroughly unmotivated to work...or perhaps there are some other mitigating circumstances. Everyone I know has been scrambling to find qualified, hard-working people.

Is culinary school worth it? I think the answer to that question will be an individual one, and you'll probably want to start by identifying your own definition of "worth it." If you define "worth it" in terms of maximum income from mininum effort, then it probably won't be worth it. If you think of "worth it" in terms of a rich understanding of cooking methodology, ingredients and the cultural & historical influences of food & dining, then culinary school might be a good idea.

The most important thing to remember about education, however, is that it really can't be bought at any price. It needs to be earned. If you could buy an education in a box at Sears, I'd have an MBA from Wharton...then I could make a boatload of money in a few years, quit my finance job & pursue my passions.

I went to culinary school & it was worth every penny...of course, I also had a full scholarship, so I didn't pay any tuition :)

I think anyone should work at least 1 year in a restaurant before going to culinary school. If you don't like the culture, consider a different career track.
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/07 @ 09:52
Comment from: Tony [Visitor]
I believe what you get out of any learning experience depends on what you put into it. Having said that, I have worked my ass off for 11 years in this biz and have worked as an Executive Chef for eight of those years.Chef jobs are few. Good chef jobs are even fewer!
PermalinkPermalink 01/11/07 @ 08:39
Comment from: Nicky [Visitor] · http://www.deglazing.com
I can see how some one would ask what is culinary school worth, but I think that in some way minimizes the obvious benefits of gaining an education. Culinary schools teach students techniques, discipline, and love of quality ingredients. (and that coupled with everything else taught in culinary school is invaluable). Any form of education is never a waste and I think that is particularly true with a culinary school education.
PermalinkPermalink 01/11/07 @ 13:31
Comment from: James N [Visitor]
As someone who is looking into culinary school later in life (36) I can say the schools I've looked into have made no promises of being a chef immediately. The admission directors I've spoken with have been up front with the fact that, though you may not have to start as a dishwasher, you will have to work your way up.

As someone seeking a second career, this makes sense. I've never worked in an industry where just having schooling was enough. Experience is mandatory. School is great for learning some basic skills and techniques, but with most careers your real learning starts AFTER school.
PermalinkPermalink 01/24/07 @ 06:47
Comment from: Everest [Visitor]
I'm finally glad to have found people who know how cheffing is.
PermalinkPermalink 02/23/07 @ 05:13
Comment from: sathish [Visitor] Email · http://www.culinaryartsonline.com
Hi,
This is sathish.i have gone through this site it was interesting about culinary school.in this school there are different types of courses.For more information go through this site...
PermalinkPermalink 03/26/07 @ 07:43
Comment from: obake [Visitor] Email
I have 20 years of industry experience, work in a luxury hotel in Beverly Hills and wasted my money on culinary school so here's my take.

Culinary school is a booming business. It's also a retarded waste of money. You do need to have a solid culinary education to be sucessful in this business...it's something you can get for free by learning from a series of passionate professionals, self study and years of experience. You can even credentialize yourself for a fraction of the cost of a culinary school diploma by simply passing the examinations given by the ACF.

In school, you get "taught" to "cook" by industry burnouts that couldn't make it. You spend your short period of training wasting your time learning how to cut onions and making outdated sauces and garnishes, that's what your instructor did 10 years before when they were a fruit peeler or a pantry monkey...before they burntout.

The Mexican dude with the third grade education but 10 years of line experience can cook better than you and he didn't want $18.00/hour to start. More importantly he will NEVER call sick, he's quiet, he doesn't smoke and you'll never catch him answering his cell phone in the kitchen.

This is a tough industry. An expensive education guarantees you nothing. You must work hard for success to be possible.

The chef to be must develop cooking knowledge and skill, people skills and financial skills. The only way to do that is through extreme hard work, effort and experience.

I recommend the route I laid out above or else going to the cheapest culinary school you can possibly find if you must pursue a degree.
PermalinkPermalink 04/23/07 @ 00:34
Comment from: David Suh [Visitor] Email
$42,000 for my education and starting pay in NYC was $7 as my very time in a real kitchen. Working and working and working upon hours.. got up to $9. Finally got broke and moved back to Austin TX and got hired at one of the top hotels in the world. My current pay is $10.70 and can't pay the bills or the loan that rapidly growing with interest. My suggestion is to find a kitchen and get taught by a good chef that's willing to teach you. Culinary school was a good experience but definitely not worth the money I paid for. I'm in debt for the rest of my life unless some how I can pay off my loan.
PermalinkPermalink 07/13/07 @ 20:25
Comment from: Neil [Visitor] Email · http://eggbeater
I was interested inyour apprentiship comment.Could u give me some info on hoe to do this.
PermalinkPermalink 08/11/07 @ 21:19
Comment from: DeLila [Visitor] Email
Wow, I've read all the comments and find it very interesting. I'm a 46 y/o female with kids that are about to leave the nest.

I'm currently in night school for Culinary. I started out my life with a passion for working in kitches and did a great job. I have always LOVED to cook.

I found, however, when young: that I was bothered by all my friends having fun and I was stuck in a kitchen cooking while everyone else was having fun. So I left the industry and have worked in the office 9-5 atmosphere.

I'm burnt out with sitting at a desk, listening to everyone complain and yell at me and disrespect everything I've worked hard to obtain.

I'm going back to my passion. Paying cash for my degree at a small community college. I'm willing to start out on a low level and work my way up -- I know I'll do it, without a problem. Money?? hmmmm, while it is important to pay the bills -- I'm sure I'll earn enought to pay my small mortgage and eating won't be a problem, because I'll be working with FOOD!!!

All I need after I graduate, is somone to give me a chance to prove myself.

I don't want to be a star, I want to make people happy.

Take care,

DeLila
PermalinkPermalink 09/09/07 @ 02:45
Comment from: Richard M [Visitor] Email · http://www.bashlaw.com
I am planning to attend Arkansas Culinary School in Little Rock, Arkansas starting in June. My advice, having already spent a career in aviation and also one as a lawyer? Either find an apprentice slot or go to a community college's culinary program. That is infinitely cheaper than Le Cordon Bleu or C.I.A.

It will take me 19 courses to graduate with an A.A.S. in Culinary Arts. Piece of cake.

Be realistic. Be patient. Learn all you can. Avoid the expensive schools.


Best regards,

Dick...
PermalinkPermalink 04/16/08 @ 15:29
Comment from: Carrie [Visitor] Email
I think it's foolish for young kids that look up to these celebrity chefs to rush into a culinary school. A lot successful chefs usually cooked most of their life before they entered culinary school. I love to cook. I love to experiment in the kitchen, it's my favorite way to express my creativity. I can run the egg station at a busy breakfast restaurant, as I have before. However, I do not want my love for cooking as my career. I want to enhance my skills through culinary school--as a personal interest and maybe have my own restaurant or catering service. My plan is to go to a cheaper culinary school-well, not a culinary school but a trade school with a culinary program. Some of you may scoff at the idea of that, but unlike other culinary schools; this school actually provides you to get all the General Education requirements required for a 2-year degree. I plan to double major! Finish a bachelors degree in Business Administration with a concentration in International Business and take the core classes of the culinary program as I will have the GE needed for both degrees. If you really want to be a culinary student, there are smart ways of going about it.
PermalinkPermalink 05/23/08 @ 06:32

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