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More on Lobsters and Whole Foods

06/21/06 @ 08:00:00 am, by Kate Hopkins Email 629 views • Categories: Food News, Shopping, Food Politics

Snappy the Clam has some problems with my previous post. They write:

Recent information from Norwegian research has shown that Lobsters do not feel pain. Bob Bayer, who heads the Lobster Institute and is a University of Maine professor, has said that "They have no brain, he said. Therefore, they do not feel pain. It’s a judgment based on the anatomy of the nervous system. No brain (means) a lack of processing system".

As this Norwegian report has been around since a least Feburary of 2005, Whole Foods has most likely been aware of it. So what other motivation could they possibly have in discontinuing lobster sales?

More foodie justification. In the first place, this is one study out of Norway. Not a lot of corroboration.

Second, with regard to Mr. Bayer. He is indeed a professor at the University of Maine. However, rather than being the professor of marine biology you might expect to have authority in this area, he is a professor of nutrition and food science. Secondly, that Lobster Institute he's the director of? Here's its mission, from the Lobster Institute website:
Located at The University of Maine, the Lobster Institute is the only organization of it kind. It was founded jointly by Maine’s lobster industry associations and the University – and quickly spread to be an international presence. We now work for and with lobstermen and all sectors of the lobster industry from Long Island Sound to Newfoundland.

I have a couple of points to make here in response...

  1. The point of the post was not to debate whether lobsters feel pain. The point was to explore other possibilities for Whole Foods decision, aside from the quite questionable and quite possibly hypocritical one of "It's inhumane to lobsters".
  2. The mission statement of the Lobster Institute is incorrectly quoted by Snappy.Their mission statement is actually:

    The Lobster Institute, with guidance and involvement from fishermen and all constituents within the lobster industry, and with both a community and global perspective, conducts and provides for research and educational outreach focused on protecting, conserving, and enhancing lobsters and lobstering as an industry…and as a way of life.

    We feel this mission can best be accomplished by an independent, non-political research and education-based organization – working in cooperation with a knowledgeable and involved public, harvesters, industry, environmental organizations, management agencies, and research community; and with the necessary resources to provide for long-term excellence and the freedom to work creatively and in a timely manner to fulfill its goals and objectives.

You can find the Lobster Institute's mission statement here.

Snappy also would like more than one study to corroborate the Norwegian study. Although I could not find additional reports, I was able to find other scientists view on the subject:

Peter Fraser, a marine biologist at the University of Aberdeen was interviewed by the UK Guardian on the Norwegian report and was on the record as saying "crabs and lobsters have only about 100,000 neurons, compared with 100bn in people and other vertebrates. While this allows them to react to threatening stimuli, he said there is no evidence they feel pain."

Eric H. Chudler, Director of Education and Outreach for the University of Washington Engineered Biomaterials has written "... the part of the brain responsible for the conscious perception and emotional significance of pain, the cerebral cortex, is absent in the lobster. Therefore, in my opinion, it is very unlikely that lobsters experience pain in the same way as humans."

Currently, there is very little in the way of proof whether lobsters feel pain, and if they do, to what extent.

But again, that wasn't the point of my initial post. My point was that Whole Foods was taking credit for political correctness, when in fact, there's some questions surrounding their motivations in removing the lobster tanks. I'm not the only one who has such questions. Trevor Corson, writer of "The Secret Life of Lobsters" writes the following paragraph in an article for the Boston Globe Magazine:

In 2005, the Maine Lobster Promotional Council commissioned a survey on people’s attitudes toward lobster. Only 15 percent of Americans, mostly in the Northeast, qualified as “traditionalists” who wanted their lobsters alive. An equally small number, just 13 percent, objected to the retail sale of live lobsters for reasons of cruelty. For Whole Foods, the smart business decision is to target the silent majority—the 50 percent or so of Americans who would love to buy fresh lobster if only it were easier to prepare.

Mr. Corson believes that the decision was made, not out of altruism to lobsters (or even for money, as I surmised), but rather to make the product more accessible to their customer.

And how does Whole Food intend on providing fresh lobster meat without putting the consumer in the position of killing the lobster? According to Mr. Corson, by using a machine called the Avure HPP. Here's how it works:

The animals are locked inside the tube, alive, and the pumps whir and the water pressure is compressed around the lobsters to three times the deepest trenches in the ocean. The lobsters die, of course -- just think what the pressure on your ears is like when you dive a few feet underwater.

At the same time, all the muscle flesh inside the lobsters conveniently separates from the shell. For the first time in human history, people have finally devised way to extract the meat of a lobster without cooking it.

For a company claiming that the lobster decision was based on moral issues, I find it peculiar that they would use a machine that crushes a live lobster with water, while at the same time stripping the shell away from their body.

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Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: haddock [Visitor] · http://knifesedge.typepad.com
You hit it right Kate. Ease for the consumer and no upkeep on the tank.

I'm a firm believer that anyone willing to purchase flesh should be willing to kill an animal. Every meat eater should, at least once, kill something. Preferably not something like a lobster or crab, which are essentially like sea insects, but something like a deer or rabbit.
PermalinkPermalink 06/21/06 @ 10:12
Comment from: ACurmudgeon [Visitor]
Water pressure? Hmm. I don't know. As someone who used to pluck spiny lobster from the sea and cook them up on the boat feet from where they were harvested, I can say that there is a taste difference even in lobster that are alive and kept in a tank. I must get my hands on a pressurized lobster, and see how it stacks up. Great excuse to have some lobster...
PermalinkPermalink 06/21/06 @ 11:09
Comment from: Jon [Visitor]
Does it really matter if lobsters feel pain? We know that cows and sheep do, yet we (and I) happily have them slaughtered (out of sight) for our enjoyment. If people can't stomach killing an animal for their own sustenance, then they have no business eating it in the first place.

The executives of WFM are either a bunch of spineless hypocrites or a mob of shrewd business men that don't believe that the margins that lobsters provide are worth the continued trade in them.

I lean toward the latter rationale.
PermalinkPermalink 06/21/06 @ 22:42
Comment from: Nika [Visitor] · http://nikas-culinaria.blogspot.com
I am a meat eater but I am also sensible to people's ethical concerns regarding eating living animals.

That said, I feel strongly that if your going to eat a living animal you honestly should recognize that it is the taking of a life and that it likely involves some level of pain and loss for that living animal.

I agree that people who eat meat should be involved in the killing and butcher of say.. a pig or cow so that they can truly appreciate what goes into that process.

Anthony Bourdain has covered his well considered (tho not high-faluting) thoughts on this in his episodes where he watches killing and butchering of his food (like the pig fest in Spain).

If you reduce the argument to "pain" there is too much weasel room that invalidates the whole argument. Pain is a subjective thing. Human pain is different than dogs' and crawdads'.

Pain can not be so easily quantified either. Who is to say honestly that the electrical response propagated in a neuron in a lobster being killed is any less alarming than the one in our neurons. It is human chauvanism to say that you must have a central nervous system to experience pain.. I think what they are saying is that you must have a CNS that is "conscious" of the pain for it to be a valid concern.

For me the bottom line is that it is non-consentual.. the lobster, cow, goat, fish, crawdad, do not give you consent to kill them.

To be an honest meat eater you have to accept that you are at the top of the food chain, that it is an unequal power relationship, and that it is not going to change.

It is human nature to not want to be THAT honest tho :-)

Sorry for the verbosity!

Nika
PermalinkPermalink 06/22/06 @ 06:29
Comment from: Tricia [Visitor] · http://triciacolianne.gmail.com
This is all so very cerebral. My husband and I had a similar, although much less in depth, discussion last weekend when we had a little clam bake. It went something like this:

Me: Honey, are you honestly going to kill Mr. Lobster with a knife? I've always just put it in the boiling water.

Chef: Yeah, but we're going to grill it, so we have to do it this way.

Me: Isn't that, sort of, you know, violent?

Chef: Well, yeah, we're killing it.

Me: You've done this before. Do you ever feel bad?

Chef: Always, a little bit, but I'm comforatable at the top of the food chain. I am. I really only feel extremely bad when something burns because then it's wasted.

And that, my friends, is what it means to be a conscientious omnivore.
PermalinkPermalink 06/22/06 @ 18:51
Comment from: Dan [Visitor] · http://www.saltshaker.net
I don't think it has much to do with either the political correctness issue (though, there was a huge public letter writing campaign over the last year to Whole Foods that pushed them not to offer live crustacea, so I wouldn't put all the blame on the company), nor on the cost of the tanks, even if that has an impact. I think the statement above, that most folks don't care about getting their lobsters, or crabs, live, is probably in the right direction. But I think they do care... they'd rather not. For most home cooks, the idea of having to kill something that's squirming in their hands is beyond imaginable. Nicely dead and packed on ice and looking pretty is far preferable for I'd guess well over 90% of Americans (and others as well). It's part of our disassociation from the food we eat.
PermalinkPermalink 06/24/06 @ 05:43
Comment from: pyewacket [Visitor] · http://seasonalcook.blogspot.com
Okay, the real issue here to me is: what the hell is wrong with 85% of Americans that they don't want their lobster alive?!? Have they no tastebuds?!?
PermalinkPermalink 06/29/06 @ 12:28
Comment from: DEe [Visitor]
I read this with great interest because being ethnic chinese in Singapore, freshness of food is still very important. I realised that americans are indeed extremely disassociated from their fod source and thats scary. Firstly because, like many of the commentators of this post, i feel that people appreciate less the food that is put on their plate. Another effect is that, more people choose to eat processed foods because these look nothing like the starting product.Thus we have bad nutrition. High sodium, fats, preservatives, etc.
I;m rather thankful that here in Singapore the predominant food culture is still more traditional, processed foods are still more expensive then fresh (as long as you cook in the local style) We buy chickens with heads and feet still attached, though not with the feathers and alive like in some of our neighbouring countries (that i would not be able to do) Crabs are only edible if they're killed right before cooking. I get chills down my spine when i see them struggle, but thats part of it all. I've cleaned my own fish.. Stuff like that is part of real cooking skill, not just putting things in a hot pan.

PermalinkPermalink 07/02/06 @ 07:00
Comment from: DEe [Visitor]
one more thing i forgot to mention in my earlier comment, was how in the US, I worked on the south jersey shore for the summer and could never understand why there was never any fish in the supermarket even though we were living on the shore. doesn't make much sense to me.
PermalinkPermalink 07/02/06 @ 07:05
Comment from: G H [Visitor]
From inside the grocery industry, the following speculations from the editors of Supermarket News:

1. The tanks of live lobsters are too much hassle. Too many problems with overstressed animals which then die in the tank or get toughened and gamey.

2. Most people are, as reflected in other comments, too squeamish to kill their own food. Live lobster will likely become a specialty food in the next few years, limited to boutiques and restaurants.

As an aside, for those folks who want to kill a cow or pig or something: I don't think killing something yourself is neccessary. Sounds like a straw-man argument to me.

I would prefer to see more butchering in local stores. Not abbatoir work, because that is simply too messy at the store, but breaking down sides of beef. Let people see what part of the cow that steak came from.
PermalinkPermalink 07/04/06 @ 20:41

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